>> rose: welcome to e broadcast. tonight, a look at theuto bill industrythe global automobile industry with the c.e.o.f neeson and renlt, carlos ghosn. >> i cannot tell y if nissan ten years wn the road going to be a great coany. we're ing to have to ear it on a daily basis but in our industry, cpetition is so rong. so i don'think you can say, you know, we're gng to be greain one or two years down the road you want t make sure that you put a lot of products onhe market and keep your eyes on the ball. >> rose: we continue with nicholas kristof andheryl wu dune, ty make the argument th the most imptant idea today is about women, violence against women andpportunities for women. sheryl and i came to see that if y want to fight poverty, if you want toight extremis,

en t most effective try d that is to educateirls, give themkills, bring them into the formal labor force, whethern cha and bangladesh and other countries th has been the way to really develop economies more quickly and make soetys work better slchlt >> we started realizing tha soft power is just soft por. it actually gives you dividen. so if yo look a china, fo instan, my grandmoth's feet were bound. in thr generatis, look at me i'm so glady feetren't bound but wve just ce such a listening way. that's becse what china did s not only educate it had people, theysaid everybody c geeducated includinggirls. >> rose: the future profile o cars and the drivi idea of men in the 21st ctury when we continue.

>> rose:carlos ghosn in here. he's c.e.o. of both nissan and renault,n alliance that many consider the most poweul the automobile industry. he took control of nissa in 2001 andead remkable turnaround. four years later,e was ned c.e.o. of renau and he began splitting s time bween france and japan. the two companies today ktd fo

about 10% of autoales in the world. he leads the companies at a time of great change as e ao industry weather it is economic crisis and cutbacks on carbon emissions. st week, niss unveiled an electric car called the lea to an amecan audnce. the vehicle is airst step? a goal to ha electric cars make up 20% of nissan a renaulsales by 2020. i am pleased to have carlos ghosn on this program for the first timefter trying for a long time. welcome, great to have you here. >> thank y, charlie. >> rose: first, the onomic recovery you see it from rope, y see it from the united stateand you see it fromsia. tell me what you see. >> wel i see a very different situation. in europe there is no covery an i think 2010'soing to be a mediocre year in europe. same thing i japan we don't see any revery. we see resisnce to the decline but no recovy. in thenited states, things look more pmising for the short term. you know, aer aery large

chop in e economy and paicularly in theautomobile instry. >> rose: b generally those impressions you justaid are about the economy overall. >> yeah,ut the economy overall we see slight growth i 2010. but a situati very different fromne country to the other. >> rose: at what point in an economic rovery do consumers think about automiles? >> wel you know, it depends where the consumer is. ife's in china or in brazil or dia, he's thinking all t time about aomobiles. what's the be opportunity? what the best deal? and we're seeing tse sales booming all the time u know, noatter what. no in tt time, you he an incrse of 5% or %, and in the good times, it's20% to 30%. the situation is different in developed countries wre for the moment w see decline. >> rose: tell me how you seehe electricar in the mix of pructs that you're goin to offer to consurs. >> wl, we' goingo have a... you knowthis is goi to be mportant part of the

market, but the importance of an electric car is going to grow slowly what you project is that in ten ars down the road, it will reesent 10% of the sal of new cars. so wre going to have a gradual increase, patient, slow, dending... starting in developed countries and then going into developin countries. i don't think it's going to take the market by storm, because you ne a lot of capacity, you need to have the consumers sta to get used to it. but without any doubt, it's going be a big facr in our industry. >> rose: and what wi the other 90% ll b? combinations? >> exactly. you're going to have a mix of soline engine, diesels, flex fu which means a mixturewith ethanol. you're goi to have hybrids. all these technologies wl continue to be in the market. >> rose: what is it about ts business that was interesting and surprising to you? because ere's a romance about . >> well, you know it's... the

car is anmotional product. it's an emotional product. you like t car... it doesn't look like a refrigerator. it'sore like a pet. all the membs of the family participe into the decision. u remember your first car, you choose a bra, you choose a cor. >> rose: and y identify with certain events in you life. >> exactly. so the car is sometng between e object and the pet. >> rose: right. >> so it's very imrtant. and near the emotionalide of the car you have als the very rational part of wt iost, what is quality, what is a liability, what are the functiality of the car? so what's fascinang about the product is you he to plan a product whi responds to the rational aspiration ofeople, but at the me time with a very big part, which is emotional. the design, thecolor, therand the name. people neeto dream about the car,ut at the same time they need tlook at the r as a

very rational... >> rose: you sucss at nissan first. when you saw what yohad to do at nissan, what was it what do you when you take a brd and you know you've go to fix it? how you go aut it? what's the manageria process? >> wl, first, you know, i had to do ts in aountry which was totally feign to me and in alanguage and a culturethat i was not accustomedo. i went to japan in 1999 and i had about three mont with the people of nissan to t to come up with a plan. in this case,ou need toknow thatothing mattered but vive thcompany. that's the only goal yo have. >> rose: and youame from renat. >> that'right. i was comi from france, from renault. and i ne do that. so t first thing is making sure that you mak a very good diagnos of the situation. that's theost important thing. very lucid, very factual, very objective. no emotion in it. and then you tablish a real objective that people share into

it. and then whatever... if u do that, femme f people share with you the diagnosis,then this tuation becomes much easier into deploying all the action pls in order to reach them. >> rose: oka but then talk toe about engineering versus design. >> well you se, design. the designsomething wch is in aertain way appeali to trends,shapes, it's more near an art than a science. evenhough you have a lot o tools trying to ke the design a little bit more specific. but at the end ofthe day. our designers are people who are re appealing their inspiration, to fe the trends of the different markets where you have to go. your engineers ar here to make sure that, you kw, yr pruct is more efficnt, quicker, lighter. >> rose: t i'm told today that they are talki to ea other

now more than they ever have. degners and enginrs. >> they haveo. ey have to. >> rose: because? >> ty have t >> rose: because you wt nctionality to be measud with pformance? >> because there appealing... they are working o two fferent levels. you know again, the designers have to make t car attractive. and the engeers have to make it absoluty indispensable from the ration point of view. and they he to work together because if one domines the other, if your designer dominates the engineers, you end up hing a very emotional car buwhich has prlems of quality and probms of functionality. if you let the engineers domina, you're going to have very borg cars but who are absolute reliable. so you need both of them to work together swe appea to both sides. >> rose: you did turnaround that some people call the most remarkableurnaround in the automobilendustry, which there have been many. a lo at chrysle what lee did there, and the have been others. fiat is a perfect example of where there' been a significant turnaround the turnaround... what do all

those share? >> well, you kw, the most... before the product, what's very important when you turn around the situation is to bring back confidencef people inside the company. because usually you turn around the siation which is a situatn which is very bad. >> rose: did you have to change the culture ofissan? >> sure, you he to change the culture. >> re: what was wrong with t culture? they dn't think they were good? >> no, i thi that everybody knew exaly what has to b done but nothing happed. you know, nothing happened. that's oftenhat you find in the situation ofurnaround is the coany is in decline, a lot of people know exactly what needs to befixed but nhing happens. so you nee to align peoe on a plan thacorrespond to wt people know has to happen. and, you know, this pross of alignment of people, establishing dision, putting the dinosis,making sure you have priorities and moving people in the sameirection is part of a turnaund. now, from time to time itakes an outsider do it. from timto time it takes

somebody to...rom the compan do it. you know, inmy case i was a perft outsider because i was not japanese, i was coming from another companynd i have a very short period of time to devise a plan and toeat the drums for evybody to follow >> rose:nd how did you put togeer the merger with renault? >> well, the allice with renault... it's not a merger. >> re: i mean alliance. >> this was diffent from everything else happening the indury because the two coanies ten years after keep their owndentity. one is headquartered in paris, the other in japan. >> rose: but you share. >> we share aot of platforms. we share lot of services. we have a lot of back offic togeer. from time toime we share plans t never the designs, never the show room, never everything that consumers conser very imrtant for them. because they want to make se wh they buy a renault it's a coletely different car from nian. >> rose: when you look at what's happened to yota, whas your analis of what's hpened to toyota? >> frankly, nothing more oress

than what happened tall the industry. you know, what happened o year ago, what happed one year ago is all of a sudden you have the financial meltdown andhe car make have been very affected by it becau car makers use a lot cash. >> rose: right. >> so we all founourselves in a tuation where cash was frozen, the banks did not work anymore. >> rose: there's n credit. >> and weere all in a tuation of difficulty. w, the companies which were ak, well, they fnd themselvesractically collapsing. d the cpanies which were strong have been weakened. and i n't think we can say that one particular car manufacturer suffed more than others. we are fall a situationof recovery now, butwe all faced a very tough me. >> rose: but h the industry and have you specifically arned any gnificant lessons? yeah. >> rose: a what are they? >> well, again, the first and most important thing i you need to make sure that your needs in

cash can be met. so, you know, we're runnin with a much lower level inventory. wee much more cautious on vestments. we hav reded massively our costs. >> rose: including research and development and product development. >> we're beinguch mor selective on theroject that we ardeveloping. >> re: there a... i mn, has erybody come to this idea that fuel efficiency is gng to be... it'sot a questn of going ba and forth from now on fuel efficiencwill be a primary principle of the development of cars? >> i so. i think everyby, all car manufacturers. now, we'reot doing it the same way. we're not doing it through the same technology t everybo's movingn the same direction. you're going to seemuch more fuel efficie cars in the future. >> rose: with respecto emotion standards, what's going t happen with respe to emission stanrds. >> oh, they're going to become stricternd stricter and not only in the united stes, everywhere in e world. you're gng to see... a the evolution going to go by

les, it'snot going to ben evolutionary tng. we're going to see from te t time standds in terms of emissions ich are going to b much tougher all of a sudden. so well have to be prepared face these challenges. >> ros in india there's a $2,500 car, tata has created a $200 car for that mket primary. are you tryingo build a r th that's inpensive? >> we do. know that we cannot do it. nissan cannot do it alo, renault cannot do it alone, we cannoto it together. because if yore based inaris or tokyo, it's very difcult to imagine a r which is goingo cost $2,500 or bepriced $2,500. you ha to do it witn india. >> rose: so it's theonly market you can serve and build becse of the labor sts or mething else? >> because of lor costs, because also of something which is very specific to india which is that they are very good at what i call frugal engineering and frugal product planning. indian peoplknow how to do a

lot of things with very little amountf resources. we d't know how to do it in japan. we don'tnow how too it in fran. we don't know w to do hit in the unit states. they knohow to do it. that'shy we partnered with e indian three wheeled a two wheelemaker. we partneredith this comny and tother we're coming with a ,500 to $300 car. >> rose: are you surprised ford did well enough and had set up its capital structure suffiently so that it would nobe in dangered like genal moto and chrysler were? >> n i'm not surprised. >> rose: but that's managemt leadership? is that what itis in and smart people who made a decision that we bter get our capital? a lot of things ntributed to it. some of it is what you mentioned. but, you know it's always been a very focused and disciplined company. >> ros in your opinion a meeting this wk, was it? this week about tryin toet gornment support for the ectrification of cars. why do you need govnment suppt?

>> you know, when infrastructure is involve you need government support. because in a certain y, governnt always somow responsible of buildg the infrastructurer putting an incentive for infrastructure. and in the case of the development oflerical infrastructure, you need support from the gernment. youeed government to p the laws or put the regulation or from time to tim to put even the money, the incentive. >> rose: my understanding is that iis all of tho. at it includes the money. basicay you're saying tt in der to have the electrification... the electric car havets full potential, you've got to have a signicant government commitment. >> y. but, you see, the point is that from time to time, this kind of interventions e costs, fm time ttime they are investments. so what we're saying is in the case of electrificati of america, and othercountries in the world, is more an investment. because, you know, when countries say we want to reduce

ourependence on oil, when countries say we need to make sure that we'reringing the righ measures in orr fight climate change or you know, emsions... green gas essions and you brg solution which can correspond to both, tha ans reducing dependen on oil and at theame time limiting the emissions of c.o. 2 it's normal that you say okay, that's whate need in order to make this happen. and that' what the electrificatio coalition has been very clearly asking for. >> rose: imean, it w fred smith at fedex, it was you, who else was there? >> oh,here were about seven other... >> rose: members of... >> members ofhe coalition. you have utily companies, you ve people who are working as supplierof the aoindustry. ttery makers. you know,ifferent parers from different elds of industry. >> rose: speak to t batte question. where e we in term of battery chnology? who's going to pavehe way for the batty of the future?

>> well, i tnk thebatteries are ready today. >> rose: a they ally. >> they're ready tay for what the consumer needs. doesn't mean 're going to be stopping ther you're going to ve a second wave or thirdave of batteries coming. why? becae the battery for t electric cars comi to the market are about00 kilograms. you ow, they're bulky, they're hey but still youe going to have very good performance on the car. bu we'll still contie to work in order to ma it... >> re: arehey all lithium based? >> lithium io that's themostcurrent. that's the most actual and the mostffective technology fo e moment. >> rose: now,will tre ever be a circumstce in which all the car mpanies will get togethe and y, look, we've got certain technological hurdlesere and not one company can gure it all t so why don't wereate some kindf consortium to the kind of basic fundament physics in order to nd the batty of the future. >> very unlike. very unlikely. (laughs) >>ose: nobody would trust anybody. >> becau competition isuch

between car makers, not only in the united states but globally, that you may have one or two car makers agreeing together or cooperating on one scific field. but i doubthat on a technology li this, which is tremely important, the zero emission cars, youe going to have a full-fledged colboration beeen all the mpetitors. rose: my impreson is and i think american impressn is that there are mor restrictis on america' entry into her marks than there is on, say, japanese entry into the american market. fair? not fair? ining a senate true? rtially true? i wouldn't say fair trade is a... an open practice and evywhere. >> rose:ou wouldn't ty? >> i wouldt say that. there are some marts which are mo closed than others. but the trend towards opening up of the markets. i am absolutel convinced at, you know, in the next fe to ten years, all the mar markets in theorld, c markets, will be ope look at thehinese market which

is ening up and the indian markets opening . these the market whi is count for the futu because the owing markets of the future. mean, we are surely... slowly but surely going into the direction of opening up the markets. >> rose: b my impression then, if tt's the truth if ind and china... you're going to be designinmost of your cars that will appeal to tha market, which is a different kin of car that's going to appeal to a american market or european market? the designs are going to be different. >> rose: but t performae? >> the platforms are going to be common, e engines are goi to be common. >>ose: because of cost efficiency? >> cost efficncy. and at the endf the day consumerhave the same taste in terms of technology. they may have completely different tastesn terms of colors, materials designs, functionalitys into the car but whatever it comes to engine, to transmission, it's about the same. >> rose:et me talk about a company that you once cast a loving eye at. (laughs) general moto. you thght you could pull at

of >> you know, when the lines betwn renault... alliance between renault and nian happened, people said "how are you going to make this happen?" this is noa merger, how are you going make it happen it worked very we. it worked ry well based on the fact that the two companiescame together, they said we're going to share cerin things bute wanto remain different want to remain th our own identity. it was based on willingness from both parties to cooperate. >> rose: but couldn't you ha a financial integrion and still maintain sarate identies? >> yes. >> ros okay. because i asme chryslernd fiat will do tt. i mean, there's somedvantage in terms ofales for chrysler to maintain its identity and its separateness even thgh it's now owned by fiat. >> but i thi it's very difficult to do it if you own complely another company in the ce of rault and nissan, nobody os the other... renault owned more than 40% of nissan, w nissan owns 15% o renault. and we kept thingseparate.

my basic... i don't believe in two... io going to other partner in a w where one feels threatened by this approach. 23 f the threa ishere, it's not going to work. it has to be bas on mutl consent, on rational approach that, yes, we can do together much more and much faster than each o alone. rose: okay, ... >> let me give you the example of the electricar. the electric car... we would not have been able to launch a an electric far nsan was alone or renault was alone. we combined our efforts andut gether research and velopment and a lot of tenology that we are cable now tobring full electc cars for renault and fulllectric cars for nsan. completely different butith the sameechnology. ... i mean, we invested. >>ose: coeting in the same markets? >> no, because.. >> rose: renault is europe... >> exactly. nian is launching the cars mainly in jap and in the uned states and goiut to

ia while renaults conctrating in europe. >> rose: niss has no strong marketing effort dicted at europe? >> we have some marking efforts but we rognize the fact that,ou know, ren snow a much bigger player in euro and in a certain way renaultakes the premise in europe. while nissan is concentrating its efforts in the uted states. >> rose: so what was your argument to generamotors? >> we can do much more togher. we can share a t of technology. we can share a lotf activities. t, you know, as long as we werenot with the same... i would say enthuasm. >> ros this was almost the partnershiyou wanted. >>es. >> rose: wha kind of partnership? and who was going to run this combination? >>ou don't need to n... >> rose: you don't nd to have one c.e.o. icharge? >> no, y don't. you don't. each.e.o. can mage his own coany but you establish rules ofharing platforms, sharing ennes, sharing transmission, sharing everytng that tters r consumer but it doesn't matter who himho's doing that.

that means you can have a... you have the renault engen from time to time a nissan car. orou can have a nissan transmission into a renault car as long as the consumer of renault or nissan is happy with the performance,e doesn't ce where the engine is coming om. >> rose: what's gng to happen to genal motors? oh, it's a very difficult question to awer, particularly for somebody who completely against the company and is not involvednto the evolution. >> re: they've begun to talk about paying backsome of the money. >> sure. >> rose: soave they ssed the... have they turned the corner of survival? >> i think so. >> rose: u do. will thebe great again? >> jury's still out, you know. you have to tch. nobody can tell you... i can not tell you if renault nissan in ten years do the road is going to be great compa. we're going have to earnt on a dailyasis, rticularly inur industry wher competition is so strong. so ion't think you can say, u know, we're going to be

greain one or two years down the road. you want t make sure that you continue to delop technology, put a lotof products on the market and keep your eyes onhe ball >> rose: you wou know this now. you woulknow this. the impression is that ameran car companies were not creating the kindsof products tha the maet wanted. therefore, toyot andissan and nda had a real opportunity to penetre that... those markets. correct? >> correct. >> rose: how much of the oblem was that and h muc of it was sily the burdenthey had of beg a health care comny? well, you know, when you say... you put onthe market a product which the market want, it's notnly about the concept, it'sot only about engineeng and chnology, it's ao about cost. it's about reliability an serve. this is part of it. soif you are deficient on one of them, you're in trouble. >> rose: buthe argument was made by geral motors executiveslook, they would say... they would say the following. the reason we're creating all these... ford motor company

would say f-150 trucks and the reas general motors is creating truckand s.v.s was because that's wt the conser wanted. that's what they were saying and then the oth people were ying well, they had no understanding ofhe market and how the market was becoming more el efficient. and therefe they let toyota come right inand create the prius which began to find i own market share. >> ros yeah. well, you know, ihink you have a lot of companies who have... who are veryuccessful in the uned states and who don have a hybrid. and u have a lot of companies... >> rose: but they're all buildi a hybr now. >> everybody's buildg a hybrid. but still, the hybridoes not extend the performance of the companbecause hrids represent to the worldwide less than 2%f the total sales. so i think we need to make se that w understandexactly where the performance is coming fro and i don't think it coming from one product or one tenology. it's a lot of different performances that you ha to li one near the other in order to get succe.

rose: okay, so i'm not... if yosay to me, off goal that by i ink 2020 or... 2020 that 20 of yr cars will be electric, correct? >> we're saying totalmarket will b at 10% oflectric rs. and obviously hopefully our shar of this will be much bigger. eltric cars. >> rose: now, will there still be high-performance cars? will theretill be s.u.v.s >> absolutely no lit to where electr cars can go. obviously when you're starting with a new technogy, yore gointo put writ it matters the most. so we are coming with thefamily car like the lea, five seaters, you know, famil car. then we'll go to commeial, then city car, then you go to luxury. you may go to performance there iso limit to what the technology can do. the eltric cars technology can do. >> rose: in tms of anything that cars do today they n do. whether it'eavy... >> the's no limit. >> rose: what could accelerate the development ofhe eleric r? >> well,his is going to depend

a lot on the consumers. we are, as you know, we're going to put o first mas marketed car into 20 ande're starting in the united ates and japan and wre bringing it at the samerice than a gasoline enne car of theame size. so we' going to cpete. we're going be cpeting praccally at the samprice. and we're going to see what's the rction of the consumer. we hav already started to tak ordersn the.. we opened one week ago. it's very promising. we have many, many people already saying we are interested intouying electric c. but you have to be pient to see what is... the eerience. >> rose: give me the spefics of your electric car, the leaf. how many miles before it s to recharge >> 100 miles. >> rose: how do you determine that? that nobodyeally drives... >> you have a standardcircuit, there are standards inhe world eachountry has standards and on the standardsof the united

ates it's going to be 100 miles. no, it's five seater. it's a very powerful ca that means you he an immediate torque. you have zero to 60 mile per hour in less thanten seconds. so it'sot a gol cart. it's real car with a real driving performan. it's affordable. and the battery is going to be at least a certain way. because we want to be able to renethe battery in function of the technology. >> rose: so you tnk that will be the model forever or just for the near future. >> no, for the near future >> rose: becau somebody will come ang and develop battery you don'lease. >> ourlf also. we can come with a second generati of btery because we think thbattery is going to get cheer, smaller, lighter with the different waves of technology we're goingo be bringing. >> rose: who's doinghe most advanced work on bteries? is it inouth korea? japan? the united states? >> well, the technology today,

the mt develed technology is tween japan, korea, china. >> rose: japan, rea, chin >> exactly. you ha u.s. companies starting to take it very serusly and inveing seriously inthe battery and have no doubt th you're going to ve a couple of g battery mers in the united states. you have some in china you have japan and korea. is is where the development of baery is going to take place. >> rose: the chinese sayhey'll have theargest electric car... they'll lead the way developing electc cars. you thk that's a realistic... >> you know... >> rose:... possibility? >> for themoment is not. it's not the case. what... you kn,the leading... rose: youan't gear up that fast? >>o, we cannot. because you knowery well when the chese decide to do something an put their resource they can get resus very quickly. >> rose: (laughs) yeah. finally this about y and management and leadership. tell me what your styleis, management. >> wl, it's very difcult for somebody to defe his own

style. >> rose: what d principle that guide you in ter of ading an industrial oanization? >> the principle is that... it's the pnciple of clarity of management. that means theriority has to be clear, the vision h to be clr. >> rose: and only th c.e.o. can articulatet? >> no, the c.e.o. h to be surroued by people who help him artulate the strategies, the vision, th priorities, et cetera. but he h to be the spokesperson who is going to exmine from the organizatn why we're making in choice d not the other one, w we're choosinghis priority andot e other one and what is the ize behind it. why we're going into this direction. now, so he'she person o in a certain way i gng to have... is ultimately responsible and accountable fothe choices being made even thoug he's not the on one to produc them or to think about them or to brainstorm aut them. ere's a big teamround it. >> rose: what is the profile of the modern executive look like for the ture in a world in which we live a global

econom and not only multilateralism... i mean multinational...ll companies haveo be global nor to compete globally. but yos is interting. i mean, you were bor inbrazil, raised in lanon and went to college in france. that is the kind of profile we're looking at in order to have the skills t be an executive in the future. >> well, i'm not sure... i'm not sure... let me more talk aut the mind-set. i think... i thinkhat you're looking for are people o are open minded >> rose: right. >> who are capable to uerstand different cultures >> rose: i was gng to say. >>rossing from one culture to the otr. >> rose: and rpect them. >> respect the, obvus lift more than respect them, love them. >> rose: right. >> and the whore able to nnect with people. who are ableo connect. th sense of empathy is extremely importt these day so whaver you have somebody... and it can be somebodyho has always beein the same cultur but o has the facily to be

open minded and love different culture, empatheticand capable to uerstand, now youave a very stron leader. now it's easier to do that when you've been to aifferent country and to different culture bu it's not impossible to be like this en tugh you've bn, you know, growing in one particular culture and livi in one particular country. >> rose:reat to meet you. thank you very mh. carlos ghosn, renault, nissan. back in a moment stay with us. >> rose:nix las christof and cheryl wudunnre here, they beme the first marriedcouple to win a pulitzer ize in journalism for their coverage in china as "new yo times" correspondents, togetherhey have wrien a ok called "half the y, turning opession into opportunity for men worldwide." i am pased to have them both

at this table. welcome. >> thank you. >>ose: thank you for comg. to read your column and certainly to see ihere iso know somehow tt you got on this story. when did it start? >>t started when we were vering tianamen square, in fact, and there are hundreds of people who we killed there, it was ont page news. t then we rlized the next year, we came across a study indicating thaevery year 3 chinese baby girls were dying because they didt have the same access to food and hlth ca asoys. every year 39,000. and we had ner given that column inch. so that opened our eyes to the possility of human righ ace abuses on a much largercale that we weren covering and en we lood, in fact, there are between 60 and a huned million women msing on the anet because of discrimination. we always think they're me.. we always think there areore females thanales in theorld and the u.s. there are. worldwide therare more mes

th females becau of this kind ofethal discrination. >>ose: and soou then... it became a journalistic interest and a story tt you thoug you had to pursue? it became a prism thrgh whicto look at theworld. and thenn... and it really fe as if the paramount moral challee for thisentury has to be that kind of discrimination tt kills60 million people but theneally on top of that, sheryl and i ce to see that if you want to fight poverty, if you want to ght extremism, then the most effective way t dohat is to edute girls, give them skills, bring tm in the forma labor force and whether china and bangdesh and otr countries tt has been the way to really develop onomies and to make socties wo better. >> rose: you couldn't and wouldn't imagine writi this book 2 years ago? >> not at all. who ever wants to write about these kind of softissues? i mean, the order of the day back when we were rerting in

china was about the crackdown the mility crackdown in tianamen. but we started reazing tt, you know, soft powersn't just soft power. it actually gives you dividds. so if u look athina, for instance, my grandmother's ft re bound. in three generations, look at me well, i'm soglad my fee aren't bound, b we've just come such a long way. and that' beuse what china did was th not only educate it had people, they said "evebody caget educated, including girls." but then ty also said irls can come... wen canome into the official lab force, into thformal labor force." and that was k. that the clothe wes wear now and the shirts and the bags that we carrynd the shoesthat we walk o these arell stitched by wen in factories. and becae they were in those factory jobs, they had an inme d they sent their money back to the llages. their stat just goes way u thathanges the ente dynamics of the hsehold. >> rose: status d confidence and self-esteem and the way they

see the restf their life? >> and then ao it contributes motaryly to the enomy at every level of going up through the national ecomy. >> rose: tl me mor about infant mortality i china and what y discored. >> wl, partly because o a stngale prerence, a strong son prefence, and ptly beuse of the arriv of trasound machine which is enable a couple to tell whether a woman is carrying a boy or girl and abortemale fetus, ere is a huge dispaty. the are about 18% moreoys being born in china than girls. >> ros now is china now begiing to realize that this is problem? >> people certainlrealize it's a oblem for the nation. any given couple, though, in many cases still nt a son and is is also true inndia. there'some evidence that when a country truly becomes substantiay more educatednd wealthier-- and south korea the best example of that-- then it begins to reverse. so sou korea has aery strong son preference. now, i fact, thatis eving out. but it'soing to take a while.

>> but also the citiesin china it is chging. e cities now the's less prefence for boys. i mean, nadays the sayin is that if you ha a girl, she'll tually take caref you when you're old whereas youson won't. >> rose: so there's now a preferen? >> well,it'sustification for having girls. nowt'sasically equal. people aren't. there's no prerence for boys. rose: and how has the govement changed itsort of messe? >> in terms of the onehild policy? >>ose: right. >> i still ests. ceainly thecountryside-- and it's bn like this for a number of yea-- they do allow two children if the firstis airl. so there is this implicit recognion that there' favetism towards boys. >> rose: china has a huge demographic prlem, doesn't it? >> yes,t does. it's aging very ickly. partly becau it has put controls on th number of kids born. >> rose: there's an intereing thing u both say which is that the mea is goodt lookingt events that happene on a certain day bu not good a looking at eventshat happen

everyday. a >> that's right. that was, again, one ofhe impulses in writing this thatf there is sometng that happens on a particular d thene'll put it on the front page, it will be on the evening news and that is what we're best at. what we'reorst at is covering things that happen eryday. and that can beeople dying of ma lr yashgs it can be matern mortaty. woman one die a minute. i think vejumbo jets worth of women are dying everyday. and yet we never cover tha and so i do tnk we needthe ws media need to think more creatively about howto inform people that are just par of the backdrophat do happenveryday and "half the sky" is a bit of an aempt to do tt. rose: this is a series of personal sries. >> we do tal a lot about the won because, frkly, what real sings is what som of theswomen have done. ey've gone from tragedy to iumph. takehe ce, for itance, of

this woman namedima. she was beaten everyday by her huand who was notmployed and so heould take his anger out on h. she hatwo girls so, of course, that me it even worse. and her in-ls told tir son "why don't yo take another wife because this one is never going to bear you a son." well, it justo hapned that at that te there was a micrinancing organization in town and sima took out a $65 lo and started an embroidery business. shwas actually qte good at embroidery. she creat a compan, actually, the merchants kept demanding her embroidery, shestarted employing her women. she's now employing her husband. no one talks about... >> rose: i likehis story. >> none talks about bting sima anymore. >> rose: they nee sima. >> that' rig. and they don't talk aboutaking another wife. rose: what do you he this will accomplh? wh's the message he other than awareness? >> we... beyond awareness what

we would ideay like to see-- and itsounds grd eloquent to say-- t really a cial moment. we started a web site, halfthkymovement.org. and the idea is the way you brg about realsocial change is not just with topown laws with offials changingthings but it's by changinattitudes. >> ros the civil rights movement. >> wld be agreat example. the abitionist movement, the enviroental movement. ese things really depend on changeonsciousness. >> ros so what's the mission statement of t movement? >> that men need to be treed equally and give opportunies and that ts is not just an issue of justice, th is an issue of usg economic resources. and the best... very practical matter, quite aside from justic but that if you want to fight porty, if you want to fight tremism, if you want to mak thbest use of yrresources, then you neeto educate and empowe women.

>> rose: is it mostly directe to undeeveloped countries >> and also to americans we who are trying to mak a difference in other worlds. ultimately this s to be a partnersp between well-meaning americans and... i think americans d.. would liketo help but so often they're discouraged by corruptio by a sense of ju a, burucracy and the concer are legitimate. helping people i harr than it los. but, in fact, ere are way one can make measurable impact. >> rose: and we actually thi that each iividual, every american,rdinary people,an ke a difference. it doesn't havto be done through the aid organizations. we kind ofrite about a do it yourself foreignaid kit where you can buil a relationship wi a woman in pakistan thrgh some organizations. you can start up aelationship and help finance her. maybe just with$10 a month, $20 a month, you can actually lend her that money if you don't wt toive it aw. there's manyhings people can

do on very smal lels. >> rose:t just seems to me that wen have a recognition that notwistanding how well they may b doing that theris a kind of discrimination that exists >> rose: i thinkhere are various lels ofnderstanding d it goes along with how much educatiothe women have. , for instance, in somef these areas of pistan and india, ithink there's very... or camboa, there's very little apprection of how much they are discriminated agains rsus... >> rose:ecause of the cture? they see i as... >> they accept it. they think that's just the norm way of the culture. so a that's where the educati component comes in bause that's where... the only way that you're going to change a culture... it's a long-term process, but it's through education. >> rose: what respon you get fr the columns? becae you use particular people and we've leard their stories and u come back to them. >> rose: right. we, i mean, it vies a lot. but in some cases it has en

just enormous. i wrot about a kistani woman anpeople have donated i think more than $0,000 to help her. and itad a transformative affect in that part of the south punj. and, you know, it's certainly been woerful for people there, but think at the end of t y our efforts toelp other people oft have a somhat mixed record. but invariably we end up truly helping oursels and our own efforts, we've bui a school in caodia. it's been so eye opening. >> rose: telle about building a school in cambodia. >> well, we were kind o inspired by a bunch o kids who write about in "half of the sky." kids in seattle who as a school project after 9/11 they went through an organizion called "american assistanceor cambodia" and they donatedoney build a school in a remote part ofambodia. and i happened to visit that area andound this school ani

was really impressed so tn we decided wi some of the advance to do the same thing. >> rose: c i turn nowto some polical issues because of your experience you were togethein china? >> we were together. we mried right bore we went to china. >> rose: but you were bo journalists. >> yes. >> rose: and tod you see china how? having been at tianamen,aving seenhe evolution, whe do you think they are havinhad the onomic success that they have had beginning to come ou of the sort o global enomic... >> i thinkhe govnment's managed e economy and the stins of the economy, i think very well. they managed this crisis well, they've done extraordinarily good job, i think, of also dealing with environmental challenges, even granted that thenvironment is a huge mess. >> rose: and it made cerin commitnts to solar power and other things. wanted to be world lead i those understanding serves their intest to do it. >> rose: that's righ buthey have a couplehuge

problems that they' going to have to bridge in the comg year one is simp the vious minorityettes antease. we've been seeing tibetans and uighurs, for example, partly because they have ne technogies, because they're richer, because there more educated empowered to protest against the central governnt. and more broadly, the whole economic modelhat has drive the boom in china is based on low-wage manufacturing. and then ty really need... that model isn't going to take them that much farther. wages eising as shel said the aginof the population makes a difference. >> rose: and peopl are raising anotheissue now. with china looks like it' alst leading the world coming out of the economic recovery, they're asng is this simy because of a $530illion stimulus oare they generating sort of growth businses tha will in sense meet a domesti need and not be dependent on exports? >> well,t's both. becae their stimulus, whatas amazing s they got it working through the syst to actually support the economy. >> rose: quickly

>> but they have other challenges, too. they nd to increase consumption. right now consumption is a tiny portion of ovall natiol spending partly because pple e worried. there's social security net. there's no hlth care sety net. so they sa. d they save for thatainy day and r the possibility that they willecome very sick as the society ages. >>ose: but the gornment also wants to create a consumption society sohat there will be demandor cnese product >>ight. rit. absolutely. >> rose: so they won'te depeent on an port market. >> that's very true. so they need t create mechisms such as a social securityet so that that would alw their people tospend more. >>ose: what's been the impt china of the openness around the world cong from technology? well, mean, there's always a catnd-mouse game interms of them trying to restin what comein on thenternet and they have incredible controls over what informion can be

passedhrough the internet. >> i'm aays struck that june 4 ishenniversary of june 419 when t sweet massacre happened. ... tianamenquare massac happened. so 6-4 is the code. so the government seors neigh has 6-4 in i you can't send i you can't use the date jun 4. so chinese very shrewdl began to use may 35. and everybody knew at they were talking abou i mean... rose: that's great. >> i've bee experimenting over the years with blogging in chinese,tarting chise blogs to see what will be censered, what isn't. i tru there ts is an exnded area in whicheople n express theirdeas, can evade the sensors. and it doesn't work perfectly. it's certainly not a free society. buthere is more room than there used to be. >> rose: let me turnto afghanistan. whe do youhink we arein

terms of afan policy an in terms of afghistan on the ground >> i think... i mean, my tps to afghanistan might... my conversations wi phtuns make me think is you send more troops into theashtunreas in the south then we are handing a gt tohealiban. more troops won't secure the pashtun aas. they will simply make the shtuns think the taliban right, there t infidels are coming. i think we have thisiew in this couny o people in those areas as eitr being taliban or anti-talan. anmost pashtuns aren' they think the pashtuns... they think taliban are these lecturerwho are always telling ople what to dor just... you know, also too violent. they d't really likehem. but they also don't really like the americans. and the heavier footpnt we have i the southnd in e southet i think creates more antipathy toward us. >> ros so what suld we do?

>> well, i tnk that's whe you have st power. smart power. i mean, y reallyo through educion. that's why "half the sky" raises the issues that education is so iortant to changing cultural attitudes. and that's what needs to happen. education of girls. whh can be a force for stabilation as girls go through the education systemnd they rai their families in a different way. they raise their bs in a differenway. >> rose:ut, iean, doesn't the fema population fear the returnf the taliban? >> cerinly they fear the return of it. buthat doesn't mn that you also can't athe same time use soft wer as well as strong military pow. i mean, i thk it has toe an integrated approh. >> rose: at thend of the day, most of the convertion is suggted we should either pull out or double dn. i think that's mission stake i don't think we should do eith. i think we suld continueto mainin our existing rce that we need to ld on to kandahar, for example, b weon't need

hold on to allf ndahar province. don't have the force to retain... toontrol all the ruraareas. soviets sent a total of 62000 trps over tir time afghanistaand, you know, they couldn't do . we're not going to be able to with any kind of numr of troops ailable to us really control the rura are in the south. and it would be a mistake to try. >> rose: and how severe is the corruption in thgovernment? >> you go through kabul andou e these extraordinaryouses which a all fanced with drug mone and these are thhouses of people who have rked in the government. th corruption is a huge irritant a it's one ofhe reasons those pashtun are so resentful of the karzai government. and they... as i said, they don't like the taliban butthey do think that the taliban at least are not rsonally corrupt. it's a he challenge for us. >> rose: fiv years from now,

where you thinkafghanistan will be? >> i don't think that t taliban wil defeat... will overthroe the gornment, the central government. and i don't thk tt the central gornment will fully control rural areas in the pashtu aas. >> rose: but mccystal has said we'rlosing the war. or people around him have said that. they lat tried to sort of modify thetatement, buthe essence was stl there. >>ose: andt's true. but the... i mean, i think it's unke they the tibanould, for example, fully control kandahar and just about impossible that they wouldeize kal. the nort i think, will rain in pretty good hands but my fear is that tre will be this instinctive desire to send in more troops, heavier military footprint and that, you know,ome combinion of keeping our existing footprint and using edation,

agricuural reforms. >> rose: my sen is the u.s. vernment is aware o that in terms of the interviews i do, people like admiral mullennd others. theyave a strong sense of e impact of governance. >> yes. >> rose: and whether ty'll achieve it and make the changes necessary or to enurage the changeis another thing. >> i mean, ke you wiln is quite extraordinary in which he understands the impornce of girls educatio for example. in some ways the milary has actually gotten these issues better than state department. the military commanders are out in t field. >> they see it. that'shy they know. they know you've got... educatn is the way to change attitudes. ey're not going to chan withouit. >> rose: nally the. the state department and secretary clinton s a woman in n charge of... >> global issues for wom, yes. rose: what is the mission of her office? >> i think it's very actually promoting the rigs of wome an girls abroad and to seeow the state partment... how the

u.s. can actual hel with that agenda. and i think they actuall can do a lot. >> rose: and d you think that they will be successful? that they ll be ableo will secretary clton's strong emphasis aassume, receptivityby presidenobama? >> i thi they can do lot and they wl be succsful. there are fact that secretary clinton we to the eastern congo, to goma t highlight these issues... >> rose: that sends a message. >>that'sthe rape capit of e world. >> rose: "half the sky: rning oppression into oprtunity for women worldwide." nick kristof d sheryl wunn, thk you so much. >> it's a pleasure. captiong sponsored by rose communications captned by dia access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org